Topic 2 & 3 : TbT optics and ES MDTs + pyAT commissioning simulations



EURIZON Task 4.1 Status:

M4.1.1 (M30 July 2022, DESY) Identify common beam physics interests, define necessary software developments
M4.1.2 (M30 July 2022, DESY) Definition of the work organisation for beam dynamics studies
M4.1.3 (M32 September 2022, ESRF) Define work organisation and contributors to the tasks identified in M4.1.1

M4.1.6 (M42 July 2023, ESRF) Assess feasibility of experimental validation on EBS or PETRA III.

To do:

M4.1.4 (M36 Jan 2023, DESY) Beam Diagnostics: Definition of the work organization for beam diagnostics studies

M4.1.5 (M42 Jul 2023, ESRF) Beam Diagnostics: Selection of the shaker device

D4.1.1 (M38 March 2023, ESRF) Preliminary technical report with proof of principle validation on simplified test cases

D4.1.2 (M48, January 2024, DESY) Final technical report with detailed beam dynamics studies and documentation for EBS and/or PETRA IV

D4.1.3 (M48, Januray 2024 DESY) Technical report on beam diagnostics studies with detailed documentation.


Extract from Kaja Scheliga message:

Submitted a revised amendment request on 23.09.2022. We are in close exchange with our Policy Officer and are expecting final feedback on the current amendment very soon. We thank you again for your cooperation, all your contributions, and patience in this very complex and difficult process!



Ilya Agapov
Nicola Carmignani
Lee Carver
Thorsten Hellert
Lina Hoummi
Joachim Keil
Simone Maria Liuzzo
Luckas Malina
(ABSENT) Elaf Musa
Thomas Perron
(ABSENT) Bianca Veglia
Simon White


TbT MDT 7th November 2022

NC: concering TbT MDT. Looked for good BPM TbT settings. changing filling pattern, some BPMs measuring beam in one turn after of before. The filling pattern was moved to get a better measurement with all synch BPMs. Total current and BPM attenuations where solved in the first 2h.
Exciter (mag shaker powered by amplifier): frequency chosen according to detuning with amplitude. several datasets taken at different freq and amplitudes. data anlyzed online.
None of the setting gave good beta functions with <10% error. 10% was observed. assuming is the first time, it is considered successfull.
Need to find a way to share the data (several Gb). will be dealt among LM and NC. NC has some doubt concerning vertical TbT data. Oscillation small or noise very large.

A second MDT could be planned in January.

LM: in the data there may be good settings, but simulations will help to understand. WE are may be on the track but parameters from the analysis may still be limiting. For futre synch of TbT data to be further analyzed. Not clear understanding of how to do it in a controlled manner.

SW: what is the BPM problem?
LM: when the orbit is measured in a single turn it appears that with the 1/3 filling patter and BPM synch with ADC, when we filled the first 100 bunches we measured negative phase advances in some BPM. This is a sign of measuring "at the edge of the turn". bunch train has to be shifted most likely, or Phase advance measurement is not ok.
Need further studies on filling scheme. Time consuming and may be not reproducible. Gero Kube: some BPM elec may shift with thermal effects. In petra is not stable. May change the optimal filling every time. Would be nice to find a way to do it faster.

NC: the synch is done to fix this issue. ADC data is used to define where the turn starts. the 1/3 is supposed to be in the same turn. The procedure has to be repeated at each restart.
It may be that 1/3 filling scheme is not "rectangular". bunch 100-200 should solve the problem, as tested in MDT.  

SW: one way to quickly do this is to shift bunch zero without refilling.
All diagnostics will have a shifted time origin.
Needs discussion with K.Scheidt.

plan for next MDT in January, either during restart or beginign of February according to MDT time slots and LM availability.

Extremum Seeker MDT (28th Nov 2022)

LH: Bianca sent ES code, and needs an other meeting to try on the simulator the software.
IA: Bianca is presently at Workshop. Bianca mentioned some working issue in the simulator.
LH: needs further tuning of parameters in the code. Conceptual issue. Everything moves, but no minimization occurs.
IA: BV, no plans yet for when to come for MDT.

PyAT commissioning tools developments

SL: presents about pyAT commissioning-simulations tools.
NC: asks to compare thick steerers formulas with thin steerers formulas for a lattice that has thin steerers.
SL: will do the test even if it is not really needed as a working formula taking in account thick magnets is already presented. The formula reduces to the usual one for L=0.

IPAC papers

All the present either do not vote or approve submitting common papers to IPAC2023

TBT  Carmignani, Malina, et al.
ES   Veglia, Hoummi, et al. ?
pyAT tools, already there, S.M.L. et al.

primary authors will propose abstract to be reviewed

LM already presented a paper on optics correction for PETRAIII. if the EBS MDT material will not be sufficient this could be merged in the paper by LM.

All members of collaboration will be authors of the submissions. here a list (I may have forgotten someone):

Ilya Agapov
Nicola Carmignani
Lee Carver
Thorsten Hellert
Lina Hoummi
Joachim Keil
Simone Maria Liuzzo
Luckas Malina
Elaf Musa
Thomas Perron
Kees Scheidt
Bianca Veglia
Simon White

Any news on Cross Talks? Yes, may be small introductory presentation of progress in next meeting.

NEXT meeting is scheduled for 1st December 2022 at 10.00.

draft agenda:
1) MDT update
2) plan for report
3) cross talks
4) any other update
5) use of pyAT commissioning tools for PETRAIV


There are minutes attached to this event. Show them.
    • 10:00 AM 10:05 AM
      status of Eurizon approval 5m
      Speaker: Simone Liuzzo (ESRF)
    • 10:05 AM 10:25 AM
      report summary of TbT MDT 20m
      Speakers: Lukas Malina (DESY), Nicola Carmignani
    • 10:25 AM 10:45 AM
      status of preparation for the 28th November MDT Extreemum Seeker 20m
      Speakers: Bianca Veglia (DESY), Lina Hoummi
    • 10:45 AM 11:05 AM
      update on py-AT commissioning tools development 20m
      Speakers: Elaf Musa (DESY), Simone Liuzzo (ESRF)
    • 11:05 AM 11:25 AM
      IPAC 2023 papers 20m

      one paper per TOPIC?

      Speaker: Simone Liuzzo (ESRF)
    • 11:25 AM 11:30 AM
      plan for next meetings 5m